What surprised you in those events which now occur in the United States, and that, on the contrary, it seems natural and logical?
Yuri Rubinsky: basically, this is a new phenomenon. At issue was the “American dream”, the essence of which is that opportunities for self-realization and success of every person, and if he achieved nothing in life, then he is to blame. For Europeans the same, and for a Russian citizen to achieve success has always been important and the role of the welfare state. This is a big difference of American civilization from another. Because it is necessary to admit that the slogan “every man the architect of his happiness” is unfair because of the ability of different people. In the same America that calls itself the “land of opportunity”, the differences were always, and not only property, but also ethnic, cultural, whatever. And especially racial. Likewise, always there were conflicts between the branches of government – legislative, Executive, judicial. Between the Federal government and the States. Between different social classes. Between city and countryside. In the US, these conflicts sometimes reached an extreme point. It was a Civil war in which the rate was the slavery of the black population. And today we see the echoes of this war.
the Murder of a black policeman is one of these echoes?
Yuri Rubinsky: For riots, the murder of a black was rather the occasion than the cause. Over the past 70 years in the US, the situation with equality of the black population is definitely improved. There was even positive discrimination, when blacks are given preferential treatment. But it turned out that the situation of the black population – not the most painful issue. In the United States because many other minorities. For example, Asians, Indians, Latinos. They have their own religious, cultural and other interests.
maybe the main cause of social crisis in the United States – inequality? And above all of economic inequality into the political.
Yuri Rubinsky: of Course, that too. What kind of equality can be discussed when the Director General, member of the Board of a major company today has an income of 270 times higher than the average employee of the same company. And over the last 30 years this difference has increased 30 times. When one percent of the population is concentrating in their hands 30-40 percent of the gross national product is the challenge of the “American dream”. Those who feel this sense of wounded, whether “black” or “white” – they are dissatisfied. The same thing is happening on all continents. It is a global phenomenon. Globalization is accompanied by deepening inequality. And not only within countries but also between them. Especially in the background of the rise of Azi�� in the first place – China and of the care there real production, industry, agriculture, to some extent even scientific progress. The fact that the current relationship between the USA and China resulted in a new “cold war”, speaks volumes.
Aggressive radicals in America pounce on anything that even the slightest way reminds them of racism, whether it be monuments to Christopher Columbus or a Popsicle. Racism – the real problem is US or it is only “the banner” protest, the cause of which is the total accumulated dissatisfaction with life?
Yuri Rubinsky: This dissatisfaction is relative. Black Americans live in the United States is much better than in the countries of their historic homeland. More importantly, the American heartland, the so-called red States, i.e., all of the Central part, except the South and the two coasts – East and West, she feels slighted. According to sociologists, the majority of the middle class say, “Our children will live worse than we are.” This is a very important symptom. And against this background was born this radical populism, the epitome and the quintessence of which is Donald trump. The paradox is that he is a billionaire, but was an expression of the discontent of the poor and the middle class.
How, in your opinion, the US President handled the crisis? He said that the Republican party is against the bill Democrats on police reform. According to him, now need to protect the guards. Is it reasonable that trump supports one of the sides? To overcome the crisis, not better for the American President to stay above the fray?
Yuri Rubinsky: I believe that trump is to cope, but less successfully. Before the pandemic coronavirus thought that he has enough evidence to count for a second term, despite his age and the fact that the Democrats social program more generous. Now Biden is ahead by 10-12 percentage points, and in the key States that define the final result.
How greatly the pandemic has affected the campaign?
Yuri Rubinsky: It has made it worse. The question arose about the choice between the normal functioning of the economy, on the one hand, and the lives of people on the other. Such a choice rarely happens in history. At the same time various American minorities were more vulnerable than the white majority. If it were not for the coronavirus, then maybe it would all go on. And certainly the movement “black Lives matters” would not have assumed such an explosive nature, not would have resulted in the overthrow of monuments to significant figures in American history. And the racial issue wouldn’t have a reason for riots. The causes of the crisis are much deeper and they are not the IP��will IsNot so quickly, but the radical manifestation of this crisis, I hope, will soon come to naught.
How, in your opinion, the events in the United States influenced the public mood in Europe?
Yuri Rubinsky: I am convinced that the problems facing America is global. Something similar happens in other countries. In Europe, for example, is also a problem of minorities – immigrants from Muslim Arab countries and from Turkey. But if the United States the religious aspect of the problem is not in the center of the conflict, in Europe the very existence of a Muslim Diaspora is very strong and supported from the outside – this is a very serious matter. Especially in Europe the welfare state is not an empty phrase, it is much more developed than in the United States. Muslim immigrants are now suffering from the coronavirus stronger than others. Because of their socio-economic situation less favourable than the indigenous majority. Against the background of globalization in all the major civilization centers today under the impact of the pandemic in their own way, reproduced the same thing happens in the US. And everywhere in the United States this is obviously what is happening is accompanied by the echo of the civil war. Take France. Freedom, equality and brotherhood, the Renaissance, the enlightenment, human rights, democracy – Yes, it was born in Europe. But Europe was the birthplace not only of democracy and human rights, but also of totalitarianism, it is enough to remember the Holocaust and Nazism. Some kind of obsession with the past is observed in many countries today. Among the countries applying for global rethinking of its history, are, of course, and the United States, which at some stage of its development, believed that they had created a perfect society, and that liberal American system – the high point of the social organization of mankind. It turned out – not so. The same applies to Russia. Is Civil war didn’t seem to be in the 20-ies of the natural and essential result of the whole history not only of Russia but of the world (remember the idea of “world revolution”), and found that it is not. The echoes of our Civil war – it is still with us, and anywhere we from it will not disappear. And today’s American crisis is a hereditary history of the United States.
is it Possible, watching what is happening in the United States, to talk about “the collapse of liberal values,” “the decline of Western civilization”?
Yuri Rubinsky: values, usually refers to the basic principles of the structure of the family, society and the state, shared by the majority of citizens. Introducing ethical criteria in the evaluation of relationships not only between people and their communities, but also States that the system of values is a grid of coordinates, outside of which is lost identity (if not the very meaning of existence) of any civilization. Values are still �� ethical, moral assessment of human behavior in different spheres of its existence and activities. And above all, the assessment of his relations with other people, groups of people, representatives of other religions, peoples… Because values not only unite, but, unfortunately, and divide people.
Western values, probably, have undergone some evolution. They changed over time?
Yuri Rubinsky: of course, They varied in some particulars, but their basis has always been stable. These values are enshrined in the manners and customs, dogmas and rituals, religions, norms of the legislation. They represent images of real or mythical heroes of the past – the prophets and saints, geniuses of science and culture, the great statesmen and generals. Chaadayev wrote: “All the peoples of Europe share a common physiology, a certain family resemblance. Despite sweeping the division into Latin and Teutonic races, of southerners and northerners – yet there is a common link that connects them all into one, clearly visible to anyone who deeper delving into their shared history. You know that until relatively recently, all of Europe was called Christendom, and that term was used in public law. Except of a General nature, each of these peoples still have a private character, but he and the other entirely woven from history and tradition. They constitute the successive ideological heritage of these peoples. It – ideas of duty, justice, law, order. They were born of the events that formed there society, they are a necessary element in the social structure of these countries. This is the atmosphere of the West; it is more than history, more than psychology: it is the physiology of European man.”
Liberal democracy not for the first time is being tested. Will it cope with the crisis this time?
Yuri Rubinsky: Europe not born democratic and liberal. She was and ancient Europe, with its slavery, and feudal Europe, with its ages. This is not what Europe is today proud and that she thinks its genotype. The echo of this different the history of Europe, it always happens. As for the West in General, the set of conditional values that are considered liberal, it is changing gradually, and sometimes quite radically. But most importantly, we need to understand what liberalism is. About the great triad – liberty, equality, fraternity – anyone who says it’s an evil temptation. I don’t think so. If you think philosophically, you have to ask yourself the question: what in the center of the universe – God or man? If God, then man is servant of God, and because the power of God, the person and the slave power, whatever it was. Another point of view: the center of the Universe – man. And for some people initially good. So believed Russo. But others (even Rousseau’s contemporaries in the homeland of liberalism in England: Hobbes, Burke) looked with disgust at the French revolution, because to them, liberalism is freedom, and above all economic. But the border it is the right of the minority. And democracy – the right of the majority. So there is an inherent contradiction between freedom and equality. The same with liberalism. Liberalism is freedom. It involves including the legal guarantees of private property. But some of this property and more, and some less. Then it turns out that equality and justice on one side, and freedom on the other. And in France, for example, liberalism today is a dirty word. Because the liberal is the enemy of the welfare state. This conflict between freedom and equality, it is in Europe deteriorated sharply. In addition, it is multiplied by the problem of minorities in Europe against mass immigration. In France, approximately 10 percent of the population in varying degrees – people whose parents or one of them were born abroad, and if we start counting from grandparents, the immigrants will make up a quarter of the population. So talk about the alleged eternal and the common liberal values that binds Western civilization, not too convincing. Liberal values is highly controversial and will remain so always. Events in America confirm this.
Yuri Rubinsky – analyst, diplomat, specialist in modern history and politics of France. Doctor of historical Sciences. He was born in 1930. Graduated from MGIMO. For thirty years he worked at the Institute of world economy and international relations (IMEMO) USSR. Was the only Soviet expert who predicted the imminent departure of Charles de Gaulle from the political scene in the may crisis of 1968, and the likely coming to power of a socialist government in 1981.
he gave lectures at the universities of Paris, AIX-EN-Provence, the Tour, the Strasbourg Institute of political Sciences, Paris Institute of international relations. Lectured at universities in the US, the UK, Switzerland, Portugal, Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco…
Since 1997 – head of the Center for French studies at the RAS Institute of Europe. Chevalier of the Legion of honour and commander of the order of Academic palms, laureate of the Guizot prize of the French Academy for the book “Russia in France”.
In 1978, 1985 and 1987 – 1997, he worked in the Ministry of foreign Affairs of the USSR, then the Russian foreign Ministry as a counselor, first counselor of the Embassy in France. Has a diplomatic rank of counselor of the first class.
