Director of the Tretyakov gallery Zelfira Tregulova says “RG” in the journey through the halls of Russian avant-garde she is not invited Sergei Shnurov, and Konstantin Khabensky and why cinema remains the most important art in the art Museum.

Number of cases COVID-19 in Moscow every day 600-700 people, as the Museum will ensure the safety of moviegoers?

Zelfira Tregulova: of the three cinema halls of the Tretyakov gallery one – year-old open, which we did in the courtyard of the New Tretyakov gallery. Naturally, we will comply with all health standards. Places in a hall, sold tickets, mean the Seating arrangement in a checkerboard pattern. Of course, we will carry out sanitary wet cleaning, etc. However, as with all of our other cinema halls in the Engineering building and the West wing of the New Tretyakov gallery. But the advantage is a summer cinema in the fact that the patio beyond the terrace of the Museum café, where you can have a meal in anticipation of the session.

film Program linked to exhibitions?

Zelfira Tregulova: tight binding no. But we are trying to build Parallels with the exhibitions. The other part of the film is a retrospective that we make with the Goethe Institute, Japanese cultural centre, Italian cultural Institute, French cultural centre… Plus the cinema is one of the venues of the festival of films on art organized by The Art Newspaper Russia.

Recently, we began to provide its platform for the pre-show art-house cinema. Primarily Russian. At the screening of “Dislike” by Andrei Zvyagintsev hall in the Engineering building was Packed to capacity.

you Have the digital projection equipment?

Zelfira Tregulova: Yes, we have advanced equipment for display of films in dcp format. But in the Engineering building we are ready to show the movie on film 35 mm and even 16 mm. At the festival of Japanese cinema all the paintings we went on tape. The same as at the festival for the exhibition “Roma Aeterna. Masterpieces Of The Vatican Picture Gallery”. We’ve got our own audience, who appreciated the quality of the projection, and recruitment films, and comfort of the room. In 2019 our film screenings was attended by 60 thousand people.

Film “the Tretyakov gallery with a Cord” was filmed in the last moment before the isolation of everyone from everyone. He gathered under a million views, helped to attract a new audience. The new film “the Tretyakov gallery with Konstantin Khabensky” was released on Okko, when the door opened, and museums are all tired of the “udalenka” non-stop. Why release a film like this winning moment?

Zelfira Tregulova: can Not accept the fact that the non-winning time. Despite the fact that today the Museum is open mainly come from Moscow. Tourists from other regions of Russia much less. And Russian tourists, by the way, the main part of our audience. Why tourists in the capital less, is another question. Those viewers, who now have no opportunity to come to the Tretyakov gallery, the film and invites to travel through the halls of the Russian avant-garde art. And – in company with itself by Konstantin Khabensky.

the Film is a continuation of the “Tretyakov gallery with a Cord”. Why walking the halls of the New Tretyakov gallery you chose another character?

Zelfira Tregulova: In fact, the task had two. One is to maintain the previous format of a direct dialogue about the paintings and their presence that were found in previous film together with Sergei Shnurov. The second task is to try this format to vary. Hence the emergence of a new companion, the other bright figures.

the image of the character, played by Khabensky, created in the style of retro. But to what period of history it refers, is not very clear…

Zelfira Tregulova: I was told that once the history of Russian avant-garde begins in 1910-ies, then the character should be associated with the era. As a stylistic indicator of the filmmakers have chosen silent movie and… “Servant of love”.

Unexpectedly, if we remember that the 1910s – a time of “yellow jackets” of Mayakovsky, shocking “walking” makeup Burliuk, Larionov, Goncharova, controversial debates about art…

Zelfira Tregulova: Yes, but in the movie this is the era of Georges méliès, ASTA Nielsen, max Linder, which, incidentally, came to St. Petersburg in 1913. And if you really think left traces of the influence of the films of Linder discover even screenplays Mayakovsky “Chained by film”. “Slave of love” – a reference to the era of silent movies.

For the spontaneity of the conversation?

Zelfira Tregulova: Yes. We wanted the spectators were our companions, so they are not only seen the pictures referred to, but felt the space of the rooms, where the art of the Russian avant-garde.

of Course, we knew that in case we can reshoot. You know, when I ran the lecture of Yuri Mikhailovich Lotman, what struck me was that, starting with a lecture and speaking about plans to understand a particular story, he did a beautiful pause and added: “If you can!”. If he did such a reservation was something God himself commanded. But I wanted to get.

But Konstantin Khabensky knew about the choice of paintings?

Zelfira Tregulova: Yes, of course. But the choice of paintings was mine, as in the previous film. Partly it was determined by the question of copyright on the reproduction of works. Because in the frame of the picture Marc Chagall “Wedding”, I’m with Chagall’s granddaughter Meret Meyer. She was advised to obtain permission to use the picture in the film through the Association of the rights��copyright holders in the field of art “Upravit”. We have done so.

in the Tretyakov gallery one of the best collections of Natalia Goncharova. But none of her work is not mentioned in the film. Why?

Zelfira Tregulova: Goncharova was in the list of paintings that we were going to talk. But her works from the series “the Harvest”, which I would like to share, recently returned from the exhibition Goncharova in Helsinki. They were brought to our storage in Lavrushinsky lane. To bring the product to the shoot, and then take away back is very difficult and expensive.

But, in principle, the film does not pretend to academic. It is based on my subjective selection of favourite and important for me personally, the works of artists of the Russian avant-garde. So, for example, is “Wedding” Chagall, not his famous painting “Above the city”. When talking about Tatlin, my choice “Model,” not a textbook “counter-reliefs”.

And not even “Letatlin”…

Zelfira Tregulova: not Even “Letatlin”. Especially that “Letatlin” is not included in the collection of the Tretyakov gallery. It belongs to the collection of the Museum of the Armed forces. We have in the hall of he long-term exposure.

the film focuses on the history of Moscow avant-garde. And how the St. Petersburg “Union of youth”, for example?

Zelfira Tregulova: it is Impossible to balance. Let’s say we have the most worthy works of Pavel Filonov. But still the best collection of Filonov in Russian Museum.

But I would not say about the Moscow accent, and that the work of Petrov-Vodkin, Lentulov, Mashkov, Larionov, Chagall’s figurative painting. Despite the fact that Konstantin Khabensky discussed the “Black square”, and polemizing with him the work of Alexander Rodchenko, and Kandinsky abstract painting, yet in the center of the film was figurative art. For those viewers who first come into contact with the avant-garde art, a way to understanding the art of the twentieth century, it may be easier.

How many people watched the movie?

Zelfira Tregulova: For the first two days at Okko saw him 15 thousand people. It’s not bad.

the Third film will about modern art?

Zelfira Tregulova: in the words of Lotman, if possible.

Recently, the Museum posted a new film series, “the Artist says.” It’s about the mini-series with Victor Pivovarov and Igor Makarevich. Absolutely breathtaking work. Early movies were filmed with Eric Bulatov, Igor Shelkovsky, Leonid Sokov. What determines the choice of heroes?

Zelfira Tregulova: First of all, a landmark exhibitions of contemporary artists, shown to us in recent years. The initial impetus was simple – to capture the experience of the Museum with uh��their masters. Exhibition of Leonid Sokov, who was engaged in dialogue with the artworks in our permanent collection, was an event of 2016. And in 2015, Igor Makarevich and Elena Elagina made a special “Makarevich – Elagina. Analysis of art”.

you Know, when we were shooting the Leonid Petrovich Sokov, talks about his exhibition, no one had no idea that this is our last chance to capture a conversation with a stunningly clever, bright, powerful Russian artist of the twentieth century. We were just enjoying communion with him, the glimpse into his lab, to understand its methodology, the approach to art. And this prompted us, together with the Arzamas”om run a cycle of documentary films – since Erik Bulatov, Igor Shelkovsky, Igor Makarevich, Viktor Pivovarov.

But projects with Victor Pivovarov recently, the Tretyakov gallery did not. His exhibition was in the ART, in the “Garage” and the Pushkin Museum. A. S. Pushkin, in the Multimedia Art Museum of Moscow…

Zelfira Tregulova: But the first large exhibition of Pivovarova “Steps of a mechanic” in 2004 has opened in the Tretyakov gallery. A retrospective of Erik Bulatov, Russia’s first Museum, was shown in 2006.

documentary series with Victor Pivovarov and Igor Makarevich is also interesting in that they allow the viewer to “enter” the circle of artists of Moscow conceptualism, which was still quite closed. Are you planning to make films with other authors of this circle.

Zelfira Tregulova: …for Example, Ilya Kabakov? I’m terribly sorry that before the exhibition of Ilya and Emilia Kabakov we were not able to make a film with them and about them. And now it is almost impossible because of the pandemic.

Anton Zhelnov made the film “Poor people. Kabakov”.

Zelfira Tregulova: Yes. But we wanted to make differently. Not the personal fate of the artist, his life, and about the most important Russian artist in the context of world art. Kabakov knows and feels the art world is extremely subtle. He’s got his own point of view, his opinion. Instant response.

Also, please note: these documentaries are filmed with the artists who continue to work. Living thought, which is born in front of your eyes in the film, gives an amazing feeling of belonging. The energy of birth of artistic thought, the world here and now is exactly what creates the nerve of these paintings.

the Idea of the series “the Artist says” once was associated with the Museum of Moscow conceptualism?

Zelfira Tregulova: No. We started to shoot these films in 2016, at the exhibition of Leonid Sokov. The idea is to turn the workshop of Ilya Kabakov on Sretensky Boulevard in the Museum of Moscow conceptualism, which would be a branch of the Tretyakov gallery, emerged year in 2017. Thanks to the support dilara Allahunovoi we were able to increment more space nearby shop, where there will be Museum space and room for educational programs.

But this series is connected with the Museum in the sense that it helps to capture a very important quest moments, open intellectual and artistic life of the last third of the twentieth century.