Finland and Sweden want to join NATO as a result of Russian aggression. Turkey is the only NATO member to oppose it. What interests does Erdogan pursue? What would a larger NATO mean for Europe? Anne Will discussed this with her guests on Sunday evening.
Because of the Russian attack on Ukraine, Finland and Sweden applied to join NATO this week. Turkey is the only member that has so far openly opposed an expansion of the military alliance to include the two countries. In order to join NATO, Turkey has asked Sweden to end its support for “terrorist groups” and an arms embargo.
What is behind Erdogan’s demands? Would an enlargement of NATO mean more security for Europe? And what are the goals of the military alliance in the Ukraine war? Anne Will discussed this with her guests on Sunday evening. The minute log to read.
Anne Will received these guests:
10:43 p.m .: But Will interrupts – the airtime is over. With that we say goodbye. Thanks for reading and have a nice evening!
10:40 p.m .: Weisband says: “We must not believe a word of Putin. You can’t negotiate with him. You have to force him.” Now van Aken and Kiesewetter have a wild exchange of blows about how to force Putin.
10:37 p.m .: Van Aken repeats his statement from before: “We have to go the civilian route first. We must tighten sanctions. If they don’t work, we can talk about guns.”
10:35 p.m.: Will wants to know why Gazprom is still exempt from the sanctions. SPD politician Roth explains: “Because we still need gas for our supply.”
10:34 p.m .: “If an attacked people want to defend themselves, that can only be done with weapons. And I say that as a conscientious objector,” explains Roth. “Germany is not sitting in the brakeman’s booth, but is doing everything that is possible.”
10:33 p.m.: “Why are you tearing your hair out, Mr. Roth?” asks hostess Will.
10:31 p.m .: “I’m trying to stay objective, but it’s difficult,” Kieswetter intervenes. “Russia will not give up any ground.”
10:28 p.m .: Van Aken asks: “Isn’t it time we all pause for a moment?” According to him, arms deliveries should be “the ultima ratio”. “We should try civilian means first.” One should ask oneself: “How can we best support the Ukrainians?” Arms deliveries are not the answer.
10:26 p.m .: “The federal government is proceeding very slowly here,” says Masala. “We are paralyzed by the fear of nuclear escalation.”
10:23 p.m .: “Germany and France are currently losing massive amounts of trust and are isolating themselves internationally,” journalist Weisband now intervenes. In Ukraine, they have accepted that they cannot rely on Scholz and Macron.
10:19 p.m .: CDU politician Kiesewetter contradicts Roth. “It’s not up to the coalition partners, it’s up to the Chancellor,” says Kiesewetter about Scholz’s hesitation in delivering heavy weapons. “I think he’s playing for time.” SPD man Roth then just shook his head. Kiesewetter goes one better: “Scholz doesn’t give the impression that he’s on the side of Ukraine.”
10:17 p.m .: “Is the Chancellor playing a game and delaying arms deliveries on purpose?” Will asks SPD politician Roth. “I find such allegations inappropriate,” he replies. “We need an international team effort. Talking to Putin only makes sense from a position of strength and deterrence.”
10:13 p.m .: If the Russians surround Kharkiv, “then we are threatened with a new Mariupol,” says Masala. It will result in a protracted trench warfare. He dares to predict: “Ukraine’s problem will be its success.”
10:10 p.m .: Weisband says: “Of course we have to go to the diplomatic table. The only question is: what is forcing Putin to this table?” In their opinion, weapons and further sanctions could do this.
10:07 p.m .: An immediate oil embargo would have massive consequences, according to Roth. That needs to be adequately discussed. “I don’t have to be ashamed if I change my mind.” He himself has done this several times since the beginning of the war. As an example, he cites arms deliveries to Ukraine.
10:03 p.m.: “Every single day we transferred 320 million for Russian oil. Also after Butscha,” left-wing politician van Aken intervened in the discussion. “We can’t just talk about weapons, but also about tougher sanctions.” He criticizes: “We’ve been talking about sanctions for three months, there are hardly any effective sanctions.”
10:02 p.m .: It was never clearly defined where the borders are and what Ukraine’s war goals are, according to political expert Masala. It also depends on how we can support Ukraine. This is not wrong, but poses a problem.
9:56 p.m .: SPD politician Roth sees it very differently. Dealing with the Ukraine crisis is a job for the federal government. It takes time to make decisions. “The federal government must send a united signal.”
9:55 p.m .: CDU politician Kiesewetter is also very critical of Scholz’s Ukraine policy. “Because of the SPD, we’re not doing what we could. The problem lies in the chancellery.”
9:52 p.m .: Now the German-Ukrainian journalist Marina Weisband comments on Scholz’s statement that Ukraine must exist. “The German federal government does not show a clear line.”
9:51 p.m .: “The Ukrainians have to decide for themselves how the war will end. I trust the Ukrainians. I trust Selenskyj,” says Roth.
9:49 p.m.: Back in the studio. According to SPD politician Roth, Ukraine must decide for itself what concessions it will make to Russia. In his opinion, however, it would not be possible without compromises.
9:47 p.m .: “What war goal is Ukraine preparing for?” Asks the moderator. A video sequence of an interview with the Ukrainian President Zelenskyj follows. “It’s only possible with diplomacy,” he says in the clip. He also speaks of a military recovery of all areas.
9.45 p.m .: After the crime scene is before “Anne Will”: The moderator welcomes her talk show guests and introduces them.
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